GTD (Good-Till-Date) Orders?

P

panks_07

Member
#1
#1
Hi,

do Square Off orders also behave same as normal stop loss orders, they expire at the end of the day and we need to place a new one every day ?

To square off my future position today, I had placed a Limit order.

but day was about to end, and I didn't have time to check whether I could modify that to stay active till the contract expiry (or next day at least), so I converted that to market and got it executed (thankfully with some profit).

I traded with ICICI direct and I will check later if they allow such a facility.
 
A

Alchemist

Administrator
Staff member
#2
#2
panks_07 said:
Hi,

do Square Off orders also behave same as normal stop loss orders, they expire at the end of the day and we need to place a new one every day ?

To square off my future position today, I had placed a Limit order.

but day was about to end, and I didn't have time to check whether I could modify that to stay active till the contract expiry (or next day at least), so I converted that to market and got it executed (thankfully with some profit).

I traded with ICICI direct and I will check later if they allow such a facility.
Click to expand...
All orders are canceled at the end of the day.

From ICICIDirect's site:

Currently GTD orders are disabled by the exchange.
Click to expand...
https://secure.icicidirect.com/trading/fno/FAQ-Futures.htm#GTD
 
P

panks_07

Member
#3
#3
I got what I was lookig for here at ICICI Direct FnO FAQ

--------------------------
Day Order / GTD Orders
Good Till Day (day order) orders are orders remains valid only for one trading session. Any unexecuted order pending at the end of the trading session for the day gets expired.
Good Till Date (GTD) order allows the user to specify the date till which the order should stay in the system if not executed.
--------------------------

But as you mentioned its disabled by the exchange. :(
 
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A

Alchemist

Administrator
Staff member
#5
#5
panks_07 said:
Got it. thanks :)

but its a good feature .. isn't it? any reason why this is not enabled?
Click to expand...
Maybe the exchanges don't want to overload their servers.

If GTD orders are allowed, many investors may start putting orders for their entire portfolio and also orders for all the stocks that they want to buy.

It is better that exchanges reset their order books at the start of each day.
 
K

kkr555

Member
#6
#6
Alchemist,

Alchemist said:
Maybe the exchanges don't want to overload their servers.
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That seems like a silly excuse (by the exchanges) to prevent a legitimate order.

Today, ICICIDirect site was down early in the morning and Wipro was trading at its high of 380+. As I had already decided that I wanted to bail out, I tried logging into ICICIDirect and the site wouldn't allow me to log in.

Eventually when the site came up, Wipro was already down to 368. So I was able to sell it only at 368.95. Had the exchanges allowed for premarket orders, I could have put in a trade for Wipro at Rs 380+.

PS. I decided on buying TCS with the proceeds from the Wipro trade.
 
ashish_jain11

ashish_jain11

Member
#7
#7
kkr555 said:
Alchemist,

That seems like a silly excuse (by the exchanges) to prevent a legitimate order.

Today, ICICIDirect site was down early in the morning and Wipro was trading at its high of 380+. As I had already decided that I wanted to bail out, I tried logging into ICICIDirect and the site wouldn't allow me to log in.

Eventually when the site came up, Wipro was already down to 368. So I was able to sell it only at 368.95. Had the exchanges allowed for premarket orders, I could have put in a trade for Wipro at Rs 380+.

PS. I decided on buying TCS with the proceeds from the Wipro trade.
Click to expand...
Although GTD orders have been disabled, but actually you needed off-market orders.
icicidirect and many other online trading sites allow to put "off-market orders".
You can put your order after closing of today's trading session and it would go in order queue on opening of market on next trading session.
 
K

kkr555

Member
#8
#8
Since Wipro touched 383 the very next day, it is possible that my issue would NOT be there had I placed an off market order as you had stated. But what if Wipro touches 383 say on 13/3 (Wednesday) instead of the very next day. It's so hard to predict anything with these stocks.

In any case, I now "wish" that I had at least the foresight to have placed an off market order as you had stated.

ashish_jain11 said:
Although GTD orders have been disabled, but actually you needed off-market orders.
icicidirect and many other online trading sites allow to put "off-market orders".
You can put your order after closing of today's trading session and it would go in order queue on opening of market on next trading session.
Click to expand...
 
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P

panks_07

Member
#9
#9
I would share my experience.
I bought Praj Futures for 74.8. After sometime I saw it trading little above 76 so I placed a Square-Off Limit order with a Trigger Price of 75.6 and Limit Price of 75.2.
Then day-end was approaching and price still hovered around 76.2, I wanted to stay long with the same Square-Off order using something like GTD.
#. At this point, I knew I could stay long by letting the Square-Off order expire if it does, and placing the same through Off-Market Limit Order before next opening.
- - - But then I was afraid what if the next opening is below my Limit Price ? -- gap up / down are not very uncommon these days.
I am new to this business and I had little time to think so I made it market order and got that executed at 76:) But then the Last Traded Price (LTP) happened to be 77 :(

I thought through the weekend and read your points.
as Ashish mentioned, Off-Market Limit orders are no-less than the GTD orders except that they ask for some additional work for us.
Even if GTD orders were available, that would keep me in the same situation as #. They would fail to cover me against gaps... .right ?

Another option when it comes to ICICIDirect is FuturePLUS (its a futures platform which does auto-square-off** at the eod closing prce). What I could do to avail of LTP is..
After the squaring off at Market Price like I did, buy the same again through FuturePLUS with the cover order speciafications same as my original Square-off order with which I wanted to stay long.
by risking the little additional gain between the price that I got and my Limit price (76- say 75.4= Rs. 0.6), I could have made Rs. 1.0 more (=77-76).

** I haven't experienced this yet. any warnings ! please share.
 
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A

Alchemist

Administrator
Staff member
#10
#10
panks_07 said:
They would fail to cover me against gaps... .right ?
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Of course.

There is nothing that can protect you from a gap-up or a gap-down.

No premarket order, stop-loss order or GTD order can do anything about opening gaps.

Gap means the price has shifted to an entirely different range.

Thus, it is not possible to do a trade in previous day's range.

(Some opening gaps do close out on the same day).
 
I

InvestorB

Member
#12
#12
ashish_jain11 said:
Although GTD orders have been disabled, but actually you needed off-market orders.
icicidirect and many other online trading sites allow to put "off-market orders".
You can put your order after closing of today's trading session and it would go in order queue on opening of market on next trading session.
Click to expand...
Does ICICIDirect allow limit orders during for "off market orders"??

In sharekhan, I can only place orders at market price. it doesnt allow me to place a limit order during "after hours trading". and this is allowed only on NSE. there is no "after hour trading" on BSE!!

looks to me another reason why I should get out of sharekhan.
 
P

panks_07

Member
#13
#13
InverstorB said:
Does ICICIDirect allow limit orders during for "off market orders"??

In sharekhan, I can only place orders at market price. it doesnt allow me to place a limit order during "after hours trading". and this is allowed only on NSE. there is no "after hour trading" on BSE!!

looks to me another reason why I should get out of sharekhan.
Click to expand...
Yes ICICIDirect allows (only) Limit Orders during Off Market Hours.

During Market Hours it allows both Limit and Market Orders.
 
R

rajivka

Member
#14
#14
InverstorB said:
Does ICICIDirect allow limit orders during for "off market orders"??

In sharekhan, I can only place orders at market price. it doesnt allow me to place a limit order during "after hours trading". and this is allowed only on NSE. there is no "after hour trading" on BSE!!

looks to me another reason why I should get out of sharekhan.
Click to expand...
I think you are taking about post closing seesion. NSE does not allow limit order in post closing session. In Post closing session the price is fixed, so only market orders are allowed.

If you are talking about after hours, then I remember placing limit orders on sharekhan.
 
I

InvestorB

Member
#15
#15
rajivka said:
I think you are taking about post closing seesion. NSE does not allow limit order in post closing session. In Post closing session the price is fixed, so only market orders are allowed.

If you are talking about after hours, then I remember placing limit orders on sharekhan.
Click to expand...
What is the difference between post closing and after hours?

Sharekhan does not allow limit orders in "after hours" trading.
 
V

vasa1

Well-known member
#16
#16
InverstorB said:
What is the difference between post closing and after hours?

Sharekhan does not allow limit orders in "after hours" trading.
Click to expand...
You can see this for "post-closing session" which is what I Googled for.

I think Geojit also doesn't allow limit orders in after hours. I'm not sure and haven't enquired.
 
V

vasa1

Well-known member
#17
#17
vasa1 said:
You can see this for "post-closing session" which is what I Googled for.

I think Geojit also doesn't allow limit orders in after hours. I'm not sure and haven't enquired.
Click to expand...
The link I gave is an old one! But I think the points are valid ... Alchemist????????????
 
A

Alchemist

Administrator
Staff member
#18
#18
InverstorB said:
What is the difference between post closing and after hours?

Sharekhan does not allow limit orders in "after hours" trading.
Click to expand...
NSE calls it "closing session", BSE calls it "post-closing session".

The price is fixed for trading during closing session.

The closing price of the stock is the price at which all trades are done.

Thus, orders can only be placed at the closing price of the stock.

Most brokers only accept "market orders" in the closing session.

If I remember right. in case of 5 Paisa, a limit order at the closing price also gets accepted.

(I may be wrong. I last used 5 Paisa's terminal, a few years back).

===========================

"After hours" order means an order that is placed after the market closes.

This is a limit order and can be any price within the range which the broker accepts.

This order stays in the broker's servers till the market opens.
 
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